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Author Topic: The Old Crown from the beginning  (Read 11146 times)
Cromwell
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« on: September 03, 2009, 07:03:34 PM »

Most of this thread will be taken from a book I own which was bought by James Bedington in 1863 written by Toulmin Smith

So I will start with a map of Deritend which on the original its spelt Deretend original one was drawn in 1750
smaller map was drawn in 1553

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« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 07:26:51 PM by Aaron » Logged
Cromwell
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« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2009, 09:18:32 AM »

This is a sketch of the Old Crown about 1860 to 1870. Nothing much had changed to the building over the previous years .


Click on image to enlarge ....


* Old Crown sketch.jpg (163.85 KB, 500x384 - viewed 192 times.)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2011, 07:35:09 PM by Aaron » Logged
davidfowler
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« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2009, 03:58:57 PM »

Nice pics. Do you have dates for them?
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Cromwell
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« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2009, 04:24:21 PM »

David, First pic about 1860 or before second pic about 1910 but can only go by the date of the books
« Last Edit: September 12, 2009, 04:56:16 PM by Cromwell » Logged
davidfowler
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« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2009, 05:50:19 AM »

Thanks Cromwell. On the first picture, to the left there's a railway bridge. I'm sure it's still there, I'll have a look later today when I come up for the Blues/Villa game.
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John 2000
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« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2009, 12:03:22 PM »

DavidF, I think you will still see it that the main line from Moor St station up to Bordsley Green,.J2
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Nephrititi
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2009, 01:17:32 PM »


Graham

I didn't realise the pub was that old.

Do you have any more information regarding The Old Crown.

Fay
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Cromwell
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« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2009, 01:55:34 PM »

Fay, the Old Crown is the oldest lived in house in Birmingham built in the 1500's by Robert o' the Greene as it was passed on the building slowly changed over the years but all the deeds survived I have copys of two of the deeds
The lane now know as Heath Mill Lane goes back to the middle of the sixteenth century  in deeds dated 1589 it is called Heathe Myll Lane  also known as Coopers Mill Lane
Drawing is 1863
Second drawing 1874 showing Old Crown (on the right) looking towards town ..St Johns Chapel over the road

The oldest ecclesiastical  building was St Martins Church going back to the early part of the thirteenth century it was demolished when the new church was built in 1872 leaving just the tower and spire untouched..... fragments of the original Norman buildings were found during this time  
St Phillips built 1719...........the ancient school house Kings Norton is 14th century
Aston Hall built 1635..


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« Last Edit: September 14, 2009, 01:11:10 PM by Cromwell » Logged
davidfowler
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« Reply #8 on: September 14, 2009, 06:20:28 AM »

Thanks John and Cromwell, 2 more great sketches.
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Cromwell
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« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2009, 03:44:55 PM »

Another interesting thing about the Old Crown House is this…..
Years ago if coming into Birmingham from say Coventry you would pass milestones telling you how many miles to Birmingham …how would you know were the miles were measured from ?..........All the milestones to Birmingham were measured from the Old Crown House
The stone at the Old Crown House was zero point and later altered to the railway station at Stephenson Place
Once one house the Old Crown House was split into two houses in 1684 and split into three houses in 1693 …in 1887 the corner house was a butcher’s shop J.A Wheeler Meat Salesman (shown in photo)


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Beryl McMullen
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« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2009, 05:14:07 PM »

Thanks Graham – the pictures are great seeing The Old Crown Inn has survived all these years -

It’s must be its history that draws folks and the fact owners down the centuries must have always served good food!
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Cromwell
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« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2009, 10:03:42 AM »

If it was not for the vigorous efforts of Toulmin Smith the Old Crown House would be long gone. In 1851 the Corporation of Birmingham put a bill before Parliament to destroy the house to improve a street Toulmin Smith successfully resisted the attempt...
The Corporation tried again in 1856 and failed and again in 1862 failing once again to have the house demolished…
Toulmin Smith wrote at the time :-
Sixteen years ago, I was obliged very unwillingly, through the incoming Oxford and Birmingham Junction Railway, to be party to the severance of an estate which had altogether unbroken for nearly three hundred years. This I could not help.
It is somewhat hard that I should have been thus obliged, at my own trouble and expense, to save for the Town, a relic of antiquity which it is for the credit and interest of the Town, and certainly not for my personal profit, should be preserved; and it is the more hard, in as much as to me, more than to any man in England, do corporate Bodies owe, in these latter times, the vindication and upholding of their independence and their legitimate authority. From the three attempts at the destruction of this House, thus made within the last twelve years, I have saved it. At no light expense to me, the House has now been restored to more of the likeness which it bore in the days of its youth, than it has had for some centuries. In the vicissitudes of human affairs, it will not be for me to save the House from the attacks of future street-improvers. This must now be committed to the good taste and good feeling of those who think it well to maintain examples of old English domestic architecture, and those who deem the preservation of this oldest and finest relic of " Old Birmingham " to be a thing worthy of the Town.

Next ...Inside the old house
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John 2000
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« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2009, 11:29:31 AM »

There used tobe a very old black and white timbered house, ( turned into offices), up in camp hill, is that still there.?
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Cromwell
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« Reply #13 on: September 15, 2009, 12:03:38 PM »

Still there John ..Stratford House dated 1601 used to be Camp Hill Farm.... pic taken from my book Old and New Birmingham by R.K.Dent

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John 2000
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« Reply #14 on: September 15, 2009, 12:45:12 PM »

Cromwell, I'm pleased about that, with the Birmingham council just running wild, they seemed to have pulled down all the beautiful buildings and replaced them with highrise. I remember as you go up Lee bank Rd, ( Edgbasten ) to where some very nice Edwardian type houses on the left ( like they have in Bath) with columns and steps, in the front small glass paned half round windows, they are gone, and in their place are some brick blocks with windows called houses. In Balsall Heath there is a road called Mary St, which crosses Edward Rd, well as you walk up from Edward Rd, there are some very nice houses with iron balconies, which are really something to see, ( I think they are still there, but who knows )

Thanks Cromwell great photo ... J2
« Last Edit: October 04, 2011, 04:12:52 AM by Aaron » Logged

Sex is like air...it's not that important unless you arn't getting any....
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